One for Speccy retroscene historians - again, if you understand the context of this page, you don't need an introduction :)

Read the #spin IRC logs that they don't want you to see here:
Part1 | Part2 | Part3 | Part4 | Part5 | Part6 | Part7 | Part8 | ALL (compressed)

If you're concerned about privacy and think this is all a bit Wikileaksish, at the time I took these logs the #spin IRC channel was public - it was widely publicised, it wasn't password protected, and people didn't mind if you took your own logs. All you needed was an IRC client and you could log in and join in. The #spin IRC channel was as open and as public as the comp.sys.sinclair Usenet newsgroup. The reasoning behind the recent court ruling on the "privacy" of Twitter tweets is also applicable in this case.

I'm just including the logs here for historians and casual observers to browse to show where the faultlines were in the Speccy retroscene.

By the way, the more prominent #spin participants calls this channel the place where all the "worthwhile" Speccy scene people reside - see if you can spot who's missing from their crowd... And seeing the attitudes on display here, do you really identify with these people? Would you really want to participate in a scene which is defined by them?


If you understand the context of this page, you don't need an introduction ;)

So - what the frick just happened? It's a combination of a couple of things.

The first is the fall-out from Paul Dunn/Dunny's exit from WoS in a blaze of glory last December - ever since then, Andrew Owen/Cheveron/Aowen has been aggressively campaigning for me to be banned, to the point of bullying the mods. He's become so obsessed with me, that he thinks that several posts I make to WoS are somehow about him, and because personal attacks aren't meant to be made on WoS then I should be banned.

It got to the stage where he was reporting every other post of mine to each of the moderators in turn, each of which rejected his complaints. A week ago he and a couple of other people (don't know who) flooded the mods with complaints about me, to the point of one of the mods starting to umm and arr about banning me temporarily just to shut Andrew Owen up. As I want to release a couple of things very soon, I banned myself for a week in the hope this would calm Andrew Owen down, and somehow comtrol the timing of my "ban". The mods then banned him for 30 days, at which point he threw his toys out of the pram big time - threatening to sue Martijn, and demanding every byte that he's written on the Forums be removed, together with all his projects and programs stored on WoS.

Meanwhile, separately...

I noticed that some of the posts from "big names" to WoSF didn't ring true - overly-aggressive, stirring, and generally trolling, including from some no-name WoS users, such as "Bob Stains" and "Willy". On past experience, this sort of thing would have been talked about on the #speccy IRC channel, so I looked at the published #speccy IRC logs and found nothing. So, I logged onto #spin and lurked - when the topic of #spin came up on WoSF in February, Alistair Cree/Guesser made a big song and dance about how open and public the IRC channel was, and that people took their own logs of it, negating the need for public logs. There I found running commentaries from Paul Dunn, Mark Woodmass/Woody, Richard Chandler/Karingal and Alistair Cree as they wound up people on WoSF, and also the WoSF mods. "Bob Stains" turned out to be Mark Woodmass's alias he used to troll people, and "Willy" turned out to be Paul Dunn's son who'd be prodded by Dunn into insulting people for him on WoSF. On another note, Andrew Owen has been sounding out people in the hope of baiting someone into building another Spectrum archive site such as WoS, using a scrape from the WoS database.

As Martijn's a mate and the mods don't need this hassle, I sent them the #spin logs to keep them informed.

Everything came to a head a week ago - the mods had the #spin logs I took and realised how they were being taken for fools by these people, the #spin lot knew that the mods knew what was going on, Andrew Owen was joined by a couple of the #spin lot in snowing the mods with reported posts demanding I be banned permanently from WoSF, I left for a week, and the mods banned Andrew Owen for 30 days for wasting their time over the past nine months - although he seemed to have been unbanned before I returned to WoSF, so I guess he made a few threats in order to make that happen.

Paul Dunn's now back on WoSF spreading a ton of BS about the whole incident - the joys of cliques, eh? Andrew Owen has flounced out of the scene big time, discovering that legal threats only go so far before people start calling your bluff. The #spin lot seem to be tighter than ever - I've never understood the blind loyalty that you get with cliques - surely one of these brainiacs can figure out that the people behind WoS are volunteers contributing a hell of a lot to the scene, so why go to war against them?

BTW - here's Paul Dunn using his son to insult people on WoS:

Jul 22 12:16:04 <karingal>      *willy* obviously has his finger on the pulse...
Jul 22 12:16:37 <Guesser>       aye, that's a good thread that one :)
Jul 22 12:17:02 <Dunny> lol
Jul 22 12:17:06 <Dunny> Willy is eddie :)
Jul 22 12:17:10 <Guesser>       the good users who actually care are crawling out of the woodwork
Jul 22 12:17:13 <Guesser>       lol
Jul 22 12:17:18 <Dunny> ie, my son
Jul 22 12:17:41 <Dunny> he does get a certain amount of "prompting" from me, but only cos he asks
Jul 22 12:17:50 <karingal>      do you remember the name of the script?
Jul 22 12:18:14 <Dunny> nope
Jul 22 12:18:16 <Guesser>       heh, psj thinks he's you
Jul 22 12:18:17 <karingal>      I've got quite a few old Spin zips going back to 2004
Jul 22 12:18:33 <Dunny> it'll be in a folder called "actions" or similar
Jul 22 12:18:49 <karingal>      ok, I have a llok
Jul 22 12:18:56 <karingal>      or even 'lookk'
Jul 22 12:19:03 <karingal>      or even 'look'
Jul 22 12:19:09 *       Guesser has a loki
Jul 22 12:19:17 <karingal>      bollox, I'll search it
Jul 22 12:19:35 <karingal>      no you don't G
Jul 22 12:19:46 <Guesser>       :)
Jul 22 12:20:12 *       karingal has broken Spud but dosen't remember how or when he did it
Jul 22 12:21:04 <karingal>      in fact my oldest Spin zip is 2003
Jul 22 12:22:08 <Dunny> just got eddie to reply :)
Jul 22 12:22:38 <Guesser>       hehe
Jul 22 12:22:51 <karingal>      *Dunny is the puppet master*
Jul 22 12:22:54 <Guesser>       rofl
Jul 22 12:23:08 <Dunny> psj seems to be a bit thick
Jul 22 12:23:14 <Dunny> I'm sure I've mentioned eddie before now
Jul 22 12:23:51 <karingal>      psj is not a bit thick, he's a lot thick
Jul 22 12:25:39 <Dunny> true
Jul 22 12:26:44 <karingal>      might start posting to WoS again, just to annoy the retard mods
Jul 22 12:26:54 <Guesser>       you are doing
Jul 22 12:27:00 <Guesser>       what do you mean start :p
Jul 22 12:27:01 <karingal>      aye 3 in 2 days
Jul 22 12:27:15 <Dunny> heh
Jul 22 12:27:32 <Dunny> I was gonna go back when SpecOS is out for testing, but I don't think I'll bother
Jul 22 12:27:45 <Guesser>       what's the point
Andrew Owen suddenly decides to return to WoSF when he realises he has a fanzine he wants to sell:

Jul 28 15:28:23 <aowen> I am mulling  return to WoS
Jul 28 15:28:26 <aowen> ^a
Jul 28 15:30:40 <obo>   a regular return, or to have a bit of fun and get banned?
Jul 28 15:30:54 <aowen> a regular return
Jul 28 15:31:01 <aowen> I'm trying to work out how to do it without getting banned
Jul 28 15:31:05 <obo>   coo :)
Jul 28 15:31:25 <obo>   is there any reason you can't just slip back in and start posting?
Jul 28 15:31:33 <pak21> Block NickH before you read any forums.
Jul 28 15:31:40 <obo>   heh
Jul 28 15:40:11 <aowen> I have
Jul 28 15:40:25 <aowen> but even the sight of NickH in a thread winds me up
Jul 28 15:40:56 <aowen> He doesn't have to get on with me. If he could just not reply to any of my posts that would help
"even the sight of NickH in a thread winds me up". Not exactly the most rational person. But to see the root of his anger towards me, you have to rewind back to December when Paul Dunn "left" WoSF.:

Session Time: Tue Dec 15 2009

[14:51] <aowen> I think I'm about to unfriend everyone from the speccy community on facebook except for Sophie
[14:52] <spike1> awww what have I done to you?!
[14:52] <aowen> I have 13 friends on FB who are also friends with that user. It would be unfair to ask them to choose
[14:53] <Starglider> Awww, he's gonna drop me!
[14:53] <Starglider> :(
[14:54] <aowen> I'm just fed up with seeing a why don't you add this person who doesn't like you as a friend stuff
[14:54] <Starglider> lol
[14:55] <aowen> I ought to have a clearout anyway. FB is for keeping in touch with people I want to go drinking with in real life (so Sophie, spike1 and Starglider are safe).
[14:57] <aowen> two of the 13 appear to have unfriended it
[15:01] <aowen> spike1: The mutual friends of me and it on FB are: [snipped - no sense bringing them into this]
[15:02] <Guesser> if wallace can ride a motorbike with a ladder and a flock of sheep...
[more names snipped]
[15:03] <Guesser> do you /really/ need to not have a mutual friend
[15:03] <aowen> yes but he does go to the infrequent CSS meets
[15:03] <Guesser> what about a friend of a friend
[15:04] <Guesser> or a freind of a friend of a friend
[15:04] <aowen> yes. I am personally very upset that that mutal friend has upset Martijn and I never want to see his name again
[15:04] <Guesser> okay, you're a little bit mental then, but that's okay :)
[15:04] <aowen> I guess I could just go back to email for keeping in touch with those people
[15:04] <aowen> Guesser: I thought we discussed that earlier
[15:05] <Guesser> probably :)
[15:05] <Guesser> I'm fairly mental too
[15:05] <aowen> I can be oversensitive and there's nothing I can do to control it, and that's the problem here
[15:05] <spike1> well, there's no TRUE escape from him y'know
[15:05] <spike1> he did come in here for over 2 years
[15:05] <spike1> he's left his mark
[15:05] <aowen> well, I could quit the scene entirely and stay in touch with you guys by email
[15:06] <spike1> what is the point of utterly quitting a scene over one fuckwit?
[15:06] <Guesser> he doesn't come on irc, and he hates c.s.s
[15:06] <spike1> get over it, you'll be reminded of him in other ways all the time
[15:06] <Guesser> so you're fairly safe from him here :p
[15:07] <aowen> yeah, you're right
[15:07] <aowen> I just really wanted to post a list of all his abuses to WoS and I've been trying to channel that negative energy into other things
[15:10] <aowen> I can lift his pic of facebook and do it in ULAplus mode
[15:10] <spike1> heheh
[15:11] <spike1> well, he's just as deserving as thingy
[15:30] <KLP2> anyone care to enlighten me about this WoS thing?
[15:30] <spike1> I don't know the full story not being a WOS reader, but it seems to centre around dick I beg your pardon nick humphreys being a twat as usual
[15:31] <aowen> people baited Dunny, one particular user in particular, and he rose to it and asked to be banned
[15:31] <spike1> (DYSWIDD?)
[15:31] <pak21> There's a number of levels to it, really.
[15:31] <pak21> A fight kicked off because a new user got banned for being rude (but nothing particularly bad)
[15:32] <pak21> And then it descended into namecalling, which lead to Dunny asking to have his account deactivated
[15:32] * aowen only asked the mods to have a word with Joe75. I specifically asked if there was an alternative to banning him
[15:32] <pak21> And there's now another flamewar thread going on.
[15:32] <aowen> it's stopped
[15:32] <KLP2> Joe75... I heard that hick mentioned before
[15:39] <KLP2> I dislike web foruns
[15:40] <KLP2> they're too inflexible
[15:40] <spike1> and of course they suffer from single point of failureitis
[15:40] <KLP2> and managed by someone that may, at his convenience, terminate your account
[15:40] <spike1> if martijn decides to close wos, that's it gone
[15:41] <KLP2> yep
[15:41] <aowen> he should just get shot of the whole thing.
[15:41] <aowen> or monetize it
[15:41] <aowen> either way he spends too much of his life running a creche for spoiled brats
[15:41] <pak21> Monetizing WoS is never really going to happen because various permissions are based on "free distribution".

[21:47] <Cheveron> didn't want to do it on work time but I've contacted our "mutual" friends on FB to let them know what an asshole he is
[21:48] <Cheveron> karingal: fuckit, right now I'd rather be a C64 owner. DanSolo is nothing compared to NickH
[21:50] <Cheveron> since NickH doesn't have to abide by the forum rules, I really don't see why anyone else should
[21:50] <Daren> chev: that's saying something
[21:50] <Daren> handsolo is a cunt
[21:50] <karingal> actually I don't understand why [AR] was made a mod
[21:50] <Cheveron> yes, but NickH is an insidious cunt which is worse
[21:51] <Cheveron> I agree, AR practically asked me to give away a feature I spent blood and tears researching for his book. But at least he wasn't rude.
[21:52] <Cheveron> well NickH has had it in for a lot of people for a long time and he's been allowed to get away with it because he's an old timer
[21:52] <Cheveron> what pissed me off was that he suggested that it was unfair that Dunny was getting special treatment when he's had more free passes himself
[21:54] <Cheveron> I mean it. I'll be watching that bastard from now on and every time he breaks the rules I'll call foul.
[21:54] <Cheveron> he just couldn't drop his own petty personal vendetta
[21:54] <Cheveron> how much fucking effort does it take to be pleasant to people?
[21:55] <karingal> it's much harder to be nasty
[21:55] <Cheveron> NickH must have a PhD in it
[21:56] <karingal> he also considers himself a bit of an interlectual
[21:56] <Cheveron> he does? what has he ever read?
[21:56] <Cheveron> He's an illiterate fuck.
[21:56] <karingal> hmmm, he's from Manchester. Is NickH actually Ken Barlow?
[21:57] <Cheveron> I'm really sorry for venting like this, but I am fucking seething with anger
[21:57] <karingal> get it off your chest, no-one will ban you or mod you
[22:06] <Cheveron> starting to get replies to facebook messages
[22:07] <Daren> sent mine, chev
[22:12] <Cheveron> Daren: and I've replied
[22:13] <Cheveron> I thought about it, and I'm not asking anyone to unfriend him, but I do think there's a reasonable cause for concern of guilt by association
[22:14] <Cheveron> my post may have been deleted but he's on notice
[22:14] <Cheveron> I will flag up every transgression
[22:14] <Cheveron> until the mods have no choice but to ban him
[22:17] <Daren> I've not read his posts, I hardly visit wos now, jusgt quick visits
[22:19] <Daren> Sorry, but you won't make me feel guilty by association over it
[22:20] <Cheveron> you know NickH has one friend on WoS.
[22:20] <Cheveron> Guess who it is
[22:21] <Daren> martijn?
[22:21] <karingal> lucky guess...
[22:22] <Guesser> I don't behave like that though... do I?
[22:22] <Dunny> nope
[22:22] <karingal> I'm tired of bullshit excuses like that
[22:22] <Dunny> obviously that's why we should excuse his behaviours.
[22:23] <Cheveron> Frobrush
[22:23] <karingal> he apologises, Nick doesn't
[22:23] <Cheveron> I'm taking a zero tolerance approach
[22:23] <Daren> In the past I've posted rants when pissed, but being wasted is a fair excuse I reckon
[22:23] <Cheveron> I will call him on all abuses
[22:24] <Cheveron> be it targetting Roger J (who also has personal issues)
[22:24] <Cheveron> or slandering Bruce Everis while he isn't present to defend himself
[22:25] <Cheveron> it's not an excuse
[22:25] <Cheveron> nothing excuses treating other people with less than basic human decency
[22:25] <Cheveron> I've never hidden behind my [redacted]
[22:25] <Guesser> indeed
[22:26] <Cheveron> it's time NickH realized he is in the wrong
[22:26] <karingal> didn't know you suffered from it
[22:26] <Guesser> and in my personal experience it only makes you treat one person badly
[22:26] <Cheveron> it's my secret weapon
[22:26] <karingal> heh
[22:26] <Cheveron> I am not going to stoop to his level
[22:26] <Guesser> well, not on purpose anyway
[22:26] <Cheveron> but I am going to be all over his posts like a rash until he gets fed up and leaves of his own accord
[22:26] <karingal> he *is* 6' 6" apparently...
[22:27] <Guesser> lol
[22:27] <Cheveron> I am going to point out every hypocrisy.
[22:27] <Cheveron> I won't need to say anything nasty. He will be hoist on his own petard
[22:27] <Cheveron> i can always change moniker
[22:28] <Cheveron> I've asked for the Bruce thread to be closed and the Roger thread to be deleted
[22:29] <Cheveron> if we're going to have rules they should apply to everyone equally -- no exceptions
[22:29] <spike1> one exception
[22:30] <karingal> NickH...
[22:30] <spike1> no, silly, martijn
[22:30] <spike1> :)
[22:50] <Cheveron> 24 years and I never asked for special treatment.
[22:51] <Cheveron> I am on a fucking crusade now
[22:51] <Cheveron> a righteous crusade, mark my words
[22:53] <spike1> let it drop, now
[22:54] <spike1> it's been done to death, leave it to WOS
[22:58] <Cheveron> sorry spike but tis the season of giving, and I intend to give every hypocrite on that site a big shining light
"Crusade" describes pretty well what Andrew Owen has been carrying out against me over the past nine months, and it seems to have taken its toll on him.

So, there's more detail than you could ever have wanted. If you're bored or annoyed, take solace in the fact that you had to do a web search in order to find this page, so you were looking for this sort of thing!